Tractor Supply Company

Friday, December 21, 2012

More on Dog Food

A question about dog food is probably the most common query I get at hunt tests or even in the clinic.  Everyone wants a magic bullet food that will give their dog unlimited stamina.  Let's see what's best.

First, we need to assume the dog is actually healthy.  This means well conditioned, "in shape", and not suffering from any illness.  Importantly, they need to be parasite free.  This translates to either regular deworming (on a monthly basis via a broad-spectrum heartworm pill) OR checking the stool at the vet's office at least twice annually; certainly 8 weeks before hunting season.

Now, on the food:  Here's the simple formula:  chicken as the protein source in the 28-30% range, a fat-level, as fed (i.e. what the bag says on the label) of 20%, and from a reputable manufacturer.  On this chicken business, the term Chicken By Product Meal sound horrible but, actually, it can be an excellent protein source.  If it is refined and used by, again, a well-known company, I don't have a problem with CBPM.  The fat source can come from a variety of animal fats, even lard. But, most fats are high in Omega-6 fatty acids which, while not toxic, are not as good as Omega-3's which are primarily found in fish oil or flax seed oil.

As far as carbs, there's no real minimum requirement for carbs in a dog's diet.  They can live without any carbs.  But, if you try to feed a product with low carbs, the manufacturer has to use some very expensive ingredients.  So, to keep costs within reason, carbs (grains) are normally in dog food.  While any of them can be used, for all practical purposes, rice is the best one.

So, we find a food that has chicken (or CBPM) as the protein source,  a fat level of 20%, ideally with a lot of fish oil, and rice as the carb source.  There you go.

Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Blood Tracking Dogs

Almost weekly, I get a call from a hunter wanting to buy a puppy for blood tracking wounded game.  Of course, most of them are interested in a Drahthaar but there are other breeds, e.g. Dachshunds (Tekels) that are good choices too.

Training a dog for blood tracking is actually kinda easy.  Early in life...say 16 weeks of age....you begin with food tracks. I like Vienna sausage bits.  I just put a few pieces out in a line with the juice from the can sprinkled between the tidbits.  Normally, I start with fairly short tracks...50 feet or so.

Then, gradually, over a period of weeks, the tracks get longer and longer with fewer and fewer actual meat pieces on it.  Eventually, I switch to other scent sources.  Buttermilk is a good one.  There is no reason to introduce real blood at this point.  You are just trying to get the puppy to learn the command "Track It" and to put it's nose down when they here those words.

Simple foot tracks where the puppy merely tracks you are nice too.  You just walk through an area of long grass, woodlands, etc. and scuff your feet in each track. Eventually, you introduce turns, gradual at first but over a month or so, you make a "box" with three 90 degree turns and the track ends up in the same area (but  
several yards away) from the start. Once a puppy completes a true box track, you are making real progress.

I always have a nice treat at the end of each track. The Germans recommend training on a empty stomach where the puppy is quite hungry but that has not been important in my experience.  The treats at the end are anything from a hamburger to a full can of Vienna's. (Be sure and pick up the empty can when you leave!)

When switching to true blood, any type will do from hog blood, cattle blood, or even real deer blood.  Getting and keeping blood is an art form.  I like to bottle it in pint bottles, freeze it and have several in inventory for training. Some people strain it but I am too lazy for that so I just freeze it as whole blood.

At first, you can use a lot of blood but over time, you want to get more and more skimpy with it.  Wounded game often drop scant blood and if it is spraying everywhere, well, you can find the game without a dog. So, the dog must learn to track flecks of blood.  Believe me, they can do it.

Eventually, you need to put the blood out and wait at least two hours and five is better for the tracking exercise. I use colored clothes pins to mark where I laid the track.  You must know where the track is yourself if you are gonna train the dog correctly!

Over a period of weeks, you use less and less blood and the tracks get longer and longer, again, finally ending with a "box" layout that makes the dog track regardless of the wind direction.

Normally, I track wounded game "on lead" but if the briers and swamps are bad, I may turn the dog loose and keep up the best I can.  This means a special lead and collar designed for blood tracking which are available from various vendors online.

While blood tracking is fun it can be a hassle when someone calls you at 9 PM to help with a lost deer after several hunters have walked all over the track since dark.  Also, the dog is a blood tracker.  No blood=no track.

Monday, December 17, 2012

Nosler Ballistic Tips

I have been round and round about bullet choice.  And, as a result, have used just about all the well-known bullets out there.

Nosler Ballistic Tips have been one of my better choices, at least on Alabama whitetails.  But, they do have some idiosyncrasies.  Here's some info that I have learned myself and from reading and talking to others.


Ballistic Tip Overview:

Ballistic Tips (BT's) were designed by John Nosler for violent expansion / explosion and medium penetration on light-skinned animals like deer. For most calibers shooting fragile BT's, you're better off using heavier projectiles with larger Sectional Density's (SD's) than you would normally use for a regularly constructed soft point bullet.

Why?

1. Heavy for caliber bullets are better in a BT because they tone down the violent expansion a bit and still have enough weight leftover for a extra penetration or a complete pass-through. Lighter BT bullets often fail to penetrate to the other side of the animal.

2. The shock-value with the heavier BT will still be more than lighter standard soft point bullets like 150-gr. and you get more downrange energy on target with the 180-gr. (fragile) load.

3. Short range shots also suit the heavier 180-gr. round with a higher SD versus lighter weight BT'd bullets with less mass that might blowup too quickly.

4. Raking quartering-away shots obviously benefit from a heavier bullet for adequate penetration.

5. A larger BT'd bullet is also more forgiving if you shoot accidently into the shoulder.
___________________

* Nosler says that beginning with the 30 caliber 180-gr. Ballistic Tips (and larger), the jacket's profile is changed or upgraded to a much stronger contour similar to the AccuBond (shown below). The lead core is also hardened over the 165-gr. and below bullets in smaller calibers - to include the 150-gr. you're considering.



Lighter weight bullets like 165-gr. 30 caliber and lower (shown below) do not have the thicker contour which starts in the middle of the shell and goes down to the base.



In summary, one might infer that the 180-gr. Ballistic Tip is simply a non-bonded version of the AccuBond and, in fact, over the past two years, I have gone almost totally to Accubonds because I can use 140 gr bullets in my .280AI whereas I might go heavier with BT's.



In Summary:

* Soft point bullets generally perform better on deer in lighter to mid-weight sizes, but BT's do not!
* For best performance, Nosler recommends heavy for caliber BT's.
* Reported problems of a BT blowing up too quickly are generally associated with too light of a bullet.
* Remember, remember.... Ballistic Tipped rounds are the exception to the rule!

Schaffer's Rules of Dog Etiquette


1. You might have the best dog in the field back home, but that likelihood lessens with each mile driven.

2. Undersell your dog—always. He’s a better shower than you are a teller.

3. Every time you’re about to brag about your dog, stop yourself and compliment another dog’s fine retrieve from the day, instead.

4. Only the underdog can overachieve. The best the over-dog can do is meet expectations.

7. Never give another guy a hard time about his dog. Believe me, he knows.

10. When your dog leans against you, it either means that he’s trying to dominate you or that he has an itch he’d like you to scratch. Your call.

After reading Mr. Schaffer’s rules of dog etiquette, I realized that I’ve boasted with pride about my own bird dog far too often during the early days of this pheasant season.  And after my pup’s failure to retrieve two crippled roosters during my most recent pheasant hunt with my good friend


Grayson Schaffer

Guns

Tom Givins is an instructor at Rangemasters in Memphis. I don't know him personally, but have been in his company on several occasions. This is a bit long but should put some perspective and balance on what is sure to be a tense next couple of weeks on the "Gun Control" bandwagon.
In the wake of the tragic, horrific slaughter of innocent school children in Connecticut, there has been a renewed cry for more gun control laws. This stems from the natural need to “do something” when a tragedy of this proportion occurs. I agree we need to do something, but the “something” I want is a bit different.


The “Gun Free Schools Act of 1994” made it a federal crime to possess a firearm on any school property. Many states enacted similar legislation at the state level, as the federal act required them to do so or lose certain federal funding. Thus, it has been a crime to go onto school property anywhere in the US while in possession of a gun for the past 28 years. Has that helped?


Well, I did some research and I cannot find a single mass school shooting in the US prior to 1994, when this bill was passed. For the purposes of this discussion, I will define a “mass school shooting” as one in which three or more people were killed. I have found 14 such incidents in the United States between 1997 and the Newtown, CT, incident of yesterday. That is an average of one incident every two years. ALL OF THESE OCCURRED AFTER THE ENACTMENT OF THE GUN FREE SCHOOLS ACT OF 1994! Let me emphasize that—every mass school shooting in the US occurred AFTER it became illegal to possess a gun on school grounds. Why?


The answer should be obvious. By making schools a “gun free zone”, you automatically disarm all law abiding citizens at those locations. This is tantamount to placing a sign on the front of the building inviting criminals and mentally deranged persons to come shoot up the place. “Come on in. We’re all unarmed, by law. We won’t interfere with your mayhem.” Disgusting…..


I, for instance, have a state issued handgun carry permit. I am certified by the NRA as a Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor and I have been certified by the FBI as a police firearms instructor. I am certified by two states to train and certify new firearms instructors for those states. I have held a law enforcement officer commission. I travel all over the US teaching defensive firearms use. Yet, by law, I would commit a felony by stepping onto school grounds while wearing my sidearm. Despite this, someone who, for whatever reason, wants to shoot up a school can walk right in. If he is willing to murder six year olds in cold blood, he certainly won’t be deterred by a law against bringing a gun onto the campus. Duh….. To think otherwise is so naïve as to be a form of mental illness.

I think it is truly ironic that in the first mass school shooting I could find, occurring in 1997, the mayhem was stopped when the Assistant Principal got a handgun from his car and confronted the gunman, who surrendered to him. Thank God the Assistant Principal had an ILLEGAL gun that day.


A couple of weeks ago, there was an attempted mass shooting at a mall in Oregon. The demented shooter had a high capacity semiautomatic rifle, but he only managed to kill two people and wound one other before killing himself. Why was the body count so low, given that this was obviously a copy-cat version of the Aurora, CO, shootings? The answer is simple. Because Nick Meli, age 22, was at the mall there with his wife and child. Nick has a concealed carry permit and was wearing a handgun concealed on his person. When the suspect began shooting, Nick drew his gun and verbally challenged the gunman. Meli held his fire because of innocent people in the background (excellent judgment under stress), but his actions caused the gunman to break off the attack, run into a nearby service corridor and kill himself, ending the spree. Of course, the lamestream media will not tell you about Nick. They would prefer a higher body count rather than tell you a legally armed citizen saved the day. Here are a few other instances that two minutes of internet research brought to light. In each case, a legally armed private citizen saved lives by being there and by being armed. 


1. In Pearl, Mississippi in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was on his way to another school building , he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. Having that gun was illegal, but it saved lives.


2. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania in 1996, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. 


3. In Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license). 


4. In Colorado Springs in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard, and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). 

Sunday, December 9, 2012

Off to the Swamps.....

I am gonna  be camped in the swamps for a few days hunting, so won't post anything until around Dec 20th.

Will report.

.280 Ackley Improved

For many years, my son has been after me to get someone to build me a "custom" rifle.  Well, I had enough rifles and they all functioned well plus I am cheap.

But, last year, I finally decided to take the leap.  I located L-D Precision in Leedy OK and, after dozens of phone calls and emails, the process began.

Of course, the primary question was caliber.  I spent months and months reading and researching before electing the .280 Ackley.

Obviously, any of the .270, .30-06, fast 30's (.300 Win, etc.) 7 Mag are excellent choices and will handle 95% of any North American hunter's needs. But, if you are gonna build a custom rifle, why not get a little sex appeal in the deal?

The .280 AI is a wonderful round.  After running a number of bullets through it, I have settled on the 140 grain Accubond.  My rifle just likes them and I am 5 for 5 with it on game.

.280 AI shooters are usually handloaders too but Nosler makes a perfect round for it "factory-wise". And, yes, I shoot them sometimes too.

So, if you are looking for a flat-shooting, all-around chambering with very modest recoil, I'd suggest at least looking at the .280 AI.

Friday, December 7, 2012

Kitchen or Kennel? Housing the Hunting Dog

I see it both ways all the time:  the hunting dog raised in the house and the dog raised in the kennel.  There are advantages and disadvantages of both.

From strictly a training standpoint, I think dogs kept in kennels do better because they know if you show up with hunting clothes or training gear, they are gonna get to work which is what they love.  On the other hand, if they are lying on the couch and you say "Let's go train" the transition from being a buddy to a working partner may be more difficult for the dog to assimilate.

Health wise, I really think dogs do better in an outdoor kennel assuming it is safe, warm, draft-free and comfortable.  I see many issues with dogs in the house from chewed furniture, housebreaking problems, and dietary indiscretion  (eating the wrong stuff).

On the other hand, I have lots of friends who keep their dogs in their house and love it.  True enough, the bonding process is stronger and there is lots of time for simple obedience training inside the home, e.g. teaching sit, stay, "here", etc.

Realistically, it is a personal decision and depends on your family's lifestyle, your spouse's tolerance level, and just the way you feel about your dog.

Me?  I am a 50:50 owner. They live in the kennel but spend a lot of time in the house.  At bedtime, they go back to their real home.  Like most folks, I enjoy my dogs lying be the fire or my recliner so I can reach down and touch her.

Drahthaar Puppy


This is Christine vom Drakehaus, a 15 week old Drahthaar puppy on her first quail hunt!  She's pointing into the brush ahead and held long enough for me to get  a shot off.

I think she has potential.

Thursday, December 6, 2012

Shotguns

Look, I have owned practically every brand of shotgun available to the average hunter AND I have shot Purdeys,  Parkers, and held one Boss.

Here's the reality:  There's only one shotgun that a hunter needs:  A Remington 870 Express 12 ga 3 inch magnum.

Of course, who wants to own just one shotgun?

So, for everything except waterfowl and spring gobblers,  I shoot a side-by-side 16 gauge.

The 16 has the killing power of a "12" with the weight of a "20".  Shells?  Well, I do reload a lot of them but they are really not that hard to find.  www.ableammo.com, www.ammotogo.com, or even the big box stores like Academy, Dick's, etc. have them all along.  Ammo availability has not been a real problem for me.

Typically, I like a 1-ounce load because it is a "square" load for the 16.  If you think you need1 1/4 ounces of shot, you actually need a 12.  Over the years,  I have gone to 7 1/2 shot for almost everything but that is mostly for convenience in the reloading room.

For pheasants, I admit I will put some 6's in my vest.  And, believe it or not, we still do "drive hunts" for deer down here and I will cram some buckshot in (although my experience with buck shot on game has been universally disappointing).

My "go to" field gun?  It's a Bill McManus Bird Gun but I also like the Upland Specials from Lion Country Supply. They are great for the money.  I do prefer extractors rather than ejectors because it's getting harder to bend over as I age and I need to save the hulls.  I grew up with double triggers and I think in the lower priced doubles, single triggers are more likely to require repair over time.

Now, on that 870 Express.................

Drahthaars

I think I saw my first Drahthaar about 20 years ago +/-.  But, it took me a few more years before I actually bought a puppy.  Here's what I have learned about them:

1. They ain't for everyone.  If you just duck hunt, you might like one of the pure retrieving breeds better. If you just hunt upland birds, one of the pure pointing breeds are fine.  But, if you hunt waterfowl, quail/chukkar/etc. hunt, deer hunt, etc.  one of the versatile breeds is a good idea and DD's are one of the best breeds among the versatiles.

2. If the German breeders haven't done anything else, they have bred intelligence and trainablilty into the breed.

3. While one of the healthier breeds out there, they are somewhat "needy" in that they absolutely required companionship with their owner and do not thrive if left in the kennel all the time.

4. The JGHV testing system requires time-consuming training and a real commitment but pays dividends for years afterward while hunting.

5. Becoming a DD breeder is a lot different than other breeds in that the hassle-factor is much more and dogs cannot be bred unless they are "certified" by your peers in the testing system.  Of course, when a puppy's pedigree for the past five decades has only dogs that:  retrieved waterfowl, pointed upland game, and tracked wounded game your odds of getting a good puppy are increased geometrically.  Also, due to strict breeding regs, you are not gonna make any money in the DD "business".

6.  The breed organization in North America  (www.vdd-gna.org) is vibrant and offers much to owners.

7.  DD's need to go into homes of hard hunters as opposed to suburban yuppie-types.

8. If trained, they can make wonderful hunting partners and companions that you can take anywhere in the world and enjoy afield.

Monday, December 3, 2012

Training Bumpers Leach Chemicals into Dog's Mouths

Dog bites BPA: Chemicals leak from plastic training toys — Environmental Health News

Tapeworms

I noticed an ad on TV this weekend promoting fenbendazole (Panacur or Safegard) for tapeworms.

While it is true that this product has a label claim for tapeworms, it is directed toward Tenia sp. tapes, a parasite that dogs get from eating rodents and rabbits.  Yes, fenbendazole will probably treat this type of tapeworm, this is not the common dog tapeworm.

That one is Dypillidium sp. a different tapeworm which is much more common. The only way a dog can get this parasite is from swallowing a dead flea.

The only drug labeled for treatment of the common dog tapeworm is praziquantal  (see previous post below.)

Thursday, November 29, 2012

Internal Parasite Control in Hunting Kennels

For all practical purposes, you need two products for internal parasite control ("worms") in hunting dogs.  Now, this doesn't address heartworm prevention.....just intestinal parasites.

Fenbendazole is available as a white liquid or a powder.  The liquid is handier.  It is marketed as Panacur or Safegard and is available in most farm stores.  Now, if you only have one or two dogs, it is cheaper to buy the product from your veterinarian.  But, if you have a large number  of dogs, you might be justified in buying a liter bottle.

Fenbendazole needs to be dosed for 3-5 straight days by mouth. Your veterinarian can give you an appropriate dose. Fenbendazole treats hookworms, whipworms, and roundworms.  It does not treat tapeworms.  It is very safe and effective.

I do not recommend Valbazen (a similar product) due to reports of blood problems after its use.

Pyrantel (Strongid, Nemex, etc.) is a yellow liquid that is useful in puppies.  It treats roundworms and hookworms.   In my hands, it is not as effective as fenbendazole but is a one-day treatment.  I use it mostly on puppies.

Tapeworms are a whole "nuther ballgame.  The drug, praziquantel, is more expensive so I don't reco that kennels routinely use it.  Your vet can do that for you and your total cost/year will be less.

Now, if you are using a heartworm prevention product that also  treats "worms", you may not need to worry about treating specifically for intestinal parasites.  A conversation with your vet will be in order to clarify your exact needs.

For my own dogs (I have four hunting dogs), I take a stool sample to the clinic 4 times per year and my technicians check them under the microscope.  Then, I treat as needed.  Since they are on heartworm prevention year round and are in off-ground kennels,  I admit, I rarely find any parasites.

Wednesday, November 28, 2012

Red Mange/Demodecosis

Back in the day, forty years ago, a diagnosis for Red Mange or, more correctly, Demodecosis was devastating.  Essentially, there was no cure.  Oh, we tried everything and, some of them worked. What we didn't know was that some dogs with demodecosis cure themselves spontaneously when their immune system kicks in.  So, some of the weird drug protocols we used got credit for the cure when, if fact, they had little to do with the dog's skin becoming normal.

The good news is that, nowadays, we have excellent results with newer treatments.  Now, there are two types of Red Mange:  the "localized" kind and the "generalized" kind.  Localized is normally discovered on puppies and appears as several circular or patchy lesions that are not connected.  This is the kind of demodecosis that often self-cures.  The problem is that we cannot tell early on if the puppy will clear up on its own or will become the dreaded "generalized" form.  So, we end up treating them all aggressively.

The much more serious "generalized" form is characterized by multiple lesions usually covering large parts of the dog's skin and often with a secondary bacterial infection on top of the mange itself.  These cases present a much more difficult challenge but are still quite treatable if the owner is willing to go the distance.

There are one or two drugs available to veterinarians that effectively treat demodecosis, i.e. kill the actual mite that, burrowed into the skin, is causing the problem.  Additionally, we often have to treat the secondary bacterial infection, usually a Staph infection with antibiotics and topical treatments.  The treatment course can be long....several weeks....but, unless there is an underlying health issue in other organs in the dog, the prognosis is good.

I think the key for hunting dog owners is to realize that home treatments just waste time and money. And, as a general statement, the tendency to get demodecosis is hereditary.  Don't ignore any skin lesion on a puppy. Early treatment is cheaper and faster.

Tuesday, November 27, 2012

A Good Book to Own

If you own hunting dogs and need a good reference book about breeding, nutrition, health care, etc. you might check out Sports Medicine for Hunting Dogs on Amazon.

I gives you enough information to talk to your veterinarian intelligently and also has a lot about breeding systems, dog food, and general care of outdoor dogs.  Cheap too.

Microchips

The microchip industry for animals is in a bit of disarray. For one thing, the chips that are most commonly used in North America are not useful in Europe.  Secondly, the "readers" that most animal shelters and veterinary clinics use often will not read all types of chips.

So, what's the reco?  Currently, I only use a chip that is useful worldwide.  We have dogs that travel overseas for hunt tests, with military families, and just vacationers so we think it is important to have a "universal" chip installed.

Of course, the problem is with the readers.  Unless the person scanning the dog as a reader that will pick up all types of chips, this universal chip I recommend might be missed.  The good news is that all newer readers can, in fact, read any type of chip.

Also, it is crucial that an owner register the chip in the dog.  Just to install a chip and not register it with the company's database is useless.  Sure, someone will find the dog in rural Kansas and take it to a shelter or veterinary clinic and the chip will show up. But, if that number is not "registered", there will be no way to locate the owner.  Of course, the chip company can determine that the chip was sold to XYZ Veterinary Clinic in Tyler Texas and maybe the owner can be located using the clinic's records but that can be iffy.

And, remember, there is no substitute for a good collar with a legible nameplate on it to get your dog back. If Farmer Brown finds the dog, he won't know the dog is chipped but he can read that nameplate.

All my dogs are chipped, tattooed, and have a solid collar with two nameplates on them with complete contact information listed.

Kidney Failure and Dog Food

There is a myth, common among even veterinarians, that a high-protein dog food can cause kidney failure. This has been disproven in numerous studies.  In one that I recall, dogs were fed a food with 50% protien as fed for three years with no increase in kidney function tests.

Now, it is true that if a dog has kidney problems, they can benefit from lower and higher-quality protein levels.  There are special prescription only dog foods just for this purpose and they are an important tool in managing the renal failure patient.

The reality is that we often never know the actual cause of renal failure in dogs.  It can vary from an infection like leptospirosis to an autoimmune condition. But, it ain't the dog food.

Monday, November 26, 2012

Introduction to Birds:  According to George Hickox, well-known bird dog trainer, the best way to introduce a 12 week old puppy to birds is with a "locked-wing" pigeon and this is what I do with my own puppies.

Simply take one wing of the pigeon and cross it over the other one firmly but not so much as to hurt the bird.  Once this is done, the pigeon can flap and walk but not fly.

Take the puppy to an enclosed area e.g. a small pen and toss the bird to the other end.  The pup will run to it, bark at it, and, finally, pick it up.  Since you are in an enclosed area, it can't run off with it. Catch the pup, take the bird and repeat this 5-6 times until the puppy says  "Hey, these birds are fun!"

Put the puppy up, unlock the pigeon's wings (it won't be hurt) and place it back in its home for work another day.

Later, you can take the pigeon out to a field and using a water-hose hobble (available from Lion Country Supply) so it can't fly off, the pup can find the bird in cover and may actually point it!  (You will need a helper for this.)

Good luck with your pup and take care of your pigeons...they are great birds to work with.
OK, I think I have finally figured out how to stop all the junk, spam, and other clutter on this blog.  Lets see how it goes from here.

Tuesday, November 6, 2012

Starting Over

I got off my Blog because of all the hackers and spam posting.  I think I've figured out how to decrease that, so in the next few days, I'm gonna make a new start.

Let's see how it goes.  Thanks for checking it out. Good stuff coming....

Doc Coffman